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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been a regular viewer on here and spent quite a lot of time on the Velar configurater, but I have to admit, I'm being torn towards Jag I-Pace.

Nice looking car with a lot of the Velar tech and lets face it, we will all be driving electric vehicles soon, so why not jump in early?

Because the infrastructure isn't quite ready yet?
Long distance travel limited by recharging?
New car issues?
I really want a Velar!

On the plus side:
Look how damn quick it is!
300mls range, my daily running, I'll probably only need to charge it once a week
Near silent running
Cheap to run
Looks and packaging appeal
I worry about residuals of conventional cars as I believe EV's are going to boom over the next few years

What's your thoughts?
 

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Hello DNR17,

I am no expert on the speed with which electric will nudge combustion out of the market. If I was, I wouldn't be sitting on this commuter train typing this post!

However, there is something called the Adoption Curve. Sometimes it's called the Innovation Curve. It is something all companies use when trying to gain a foothold in the market for a new product and then get it to mainstream. After that, you can reduce the marketing budget as the consumer does the rest.

So, thinking about where you live (city and rural will be different as I live in the rural Scottish Borders and I can tell you that diesel has a few years left in it around these parts), where do you think folk are on the adoption curve?

My guesstimate is that it's the Innovators who are pure electric. That's a way off of mainstream yet. Innovators are the geeks but they don't really drive the buying habits of the rest of us. It's the Early Majority that are the influencers and who make the next group, the Early Majority, adopt the new technology. Check Google and you will see the chart and the percentages of the population that fall into each group. It's always the same, whatever the product. Only the speed of adoption changes but it always follows this pattern. Apple know this, believe me.

So, take a look around you. As a percentage, how many cars are pure electric right now. Project forward twelve months (12-24mths might be as far as you can accurately foresee). What do you think the adoption rate will be by then. After that, it really depends upon legislation, infrastructure and incentives. And think about the logistical challenges for the National Grid and charging points for folk living in cities without garages or drives etc. Plus the demand for Li-ion and suchlike will be huge, can the supply of finite resource keep up?

BBC published this today: We're driving to an electric future, but how do we keep the kettle on?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41011008

And finally, for anyone worried about residuals in 3-5yrs on their diesels...... the Adoption Curve says that the Late Majority and ever present Laggards will buy our cars - cars which to them will remain desirable.

Velar diesels are Euro 6 compliant. I think that this, plus the brand and new style direction will mean our cars will be fine for resale in a few years time. The used car buyer won't have the money to access premium electric cars at 5yrs old. They will still hanker after diesel, will be prepared to pay a premium in tax or at the pump as the availability of used electric premium cars will be limited and they will worry about battery pack performance. Just don't ask me to guarantee that!

Earlier today, the BBC continued their excellent series of articles on inventions that changed the way we live and work. This week it's about electricity. They suggest it took fifty years after the first electric motors were installed to replace steam in factories before productivity gains and Returns on Investment really started to flow. The reason? Inventions like this, to have a profound impact, need a transformation in thinking about how they are deployed and how behaviours need to change as a result. For the factory owners of the early 20th century, it was the need to redesign factories, their production lines and acknowledge that workers could now choose the pace at which they worked rather than the steam engine driving all of the pullies and gears running through the factory site.

I suspect car usage and travel solutions will need to change more significantly, especially in cities, than just swapping combustion for electric. A bigger shift will be needed.

Interesting question you pose!

Best wishes,

Arianne
 

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I too was torn between the i pace and the velar. Most driving situations 300 miles would do. One thing I did notice with the Jag range ( govt cycle range) obv driven very slowly with little throttle usage etc etc. So prob looking around 275 life. Which again would be mainly ok. However recently did a 250 mile trip ( which would be ok) but got stuck in traffic jam for 2 hours. So likely I pace would not have made it.

My personal feeling is until there are universal fast chargers that suit all electric cars, whether Jag Tesla or BMW then need almost petrol stations to be forced to have these universal charge stations..

So all can charge car from the same points for me we are not just there.

Very nearly there. I suspect my next car after the velar will likely be electric. Just for me with a few longer trips with current traffic. We not there yet
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys, this is exactly why I posted this.

Arianne, you have answered why I have been burnt in business so many times over the years, in fact I am working with an American manufacturer right now who I jumped in with on day one, after just two years they have decided to pull out of the UK leaving me with customers who will have useless kit I have sold them that I need to address. I am without doubt an early adopter!

The cautious route would be buy a Velar and enjoy it for three year and then look again. I do however believe the I-pace will be in huge demand and there will be a long wait for it or something similar meaning residuals will be very strong.

Look at what's happening with the Teslar 3, you had people camping outside the showrooms for days to get in on the act soon, that's unheard of in the automotive industry.

Sticking with my DNA, I will probably end up putting a deposit down on an I-Pace and keep an eye on what's happening.

I'm not ready to replace my current car for another 12 months and my LR dealer believes I can order early next year for delivery September 18.

The BBC link says there were 480 new charging stations introduced in the last 30 days, potentially another 6000 charging points by the time I would receive an I-pace, that's healthy. I would probably get solar power at my home with a separate supply to charge the car. We will also have a conventional car in the family (currently the wife's Evoque, although looking at the e-pace for this replacement early next year) should confidence not be there for long trips in the I-pace.

Once again, thanks for taking the time to reply
 

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^^

"Look at what's happening with the Teslar 3, you had people camping outside the showrooms for days to get in on the act soon, that's unheard of in the automotive industry."

Yep, they're the Innovators or Geeks. But these are not the group that drive uptake. Geeks are funny, interesting and whacky folk to have around from time to time. But you don't adopt your behaviours from their lead. They are the people who camp outside the Apple Store for the iPhone 8 to be released the next morning.

The Early Adopters speak our language, live our lives and share our values. They influence opinion of the majority. When we see them with a gadget, they can explain why it is so useful and desirable for them - in terms we can then overlay onto our own lives.

Whatever, enjoy. My hope is that, by the time I retire in around seven years, electric cars will be feasible. This might reach out to me, especially if coupled with a modest engine that provides hybrid options better than the hopeless Volvo T8. Some of these hybrids manage a grand total of 8mls range in winter with low ambient temperatures. Wow!

Tesla 3. The interior looks a bit austere?

Arianne
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lol, I'm with you, and yes you are probably right about these being geeks. I'm not one of them btw...

I'll be honest, I have never seen an image of the teslar 3, it's not for me, but I have seen a lot of road tests of the other two recently and apart from being American in design, they are impressive bits of kit and make the combustion engine seem slow and old fashioned.

I guess part of me considering this is my admiration of the technology. Probably shouldn't say this, but being green is further down my list of reasons to consider EV.

I am a petrol head btw, spent most of my youth with oily hands, raced bikes and still race cars, in fact I still get my hands oily as I am No1 mechanic, coach, truck driver and main sponsor of my son who races karts.
 

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DNR17, that sounds like a nice life.

Snap on the close relationship with our Sons. Also snap on coach driving (something I did when I was a lot younger as my Father worked for a family firm and I gained my PCV licence - enjoyed driving the luxurious coaches but didn't enjoy some of the passengers!).

Best wishes,

Arianne
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I see what you mean about the Tesla 3 interior, taking minimalism to a whole new level! Horrid!

I have actually come to an agreement with my Jag dealer, I am now on the list for an i-pace, No5 on their list, with the understanding that if after its launch (late this year) its not what I want, I can transfer to the Velar list, win win...
 

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Had a RRS hybrid, could only manage .9 of a mile but great fun creeping up on people in car parks.
Perhaps JLR could think sideways, locate batteries in easily accessible location (boot?) and provide fully charged battery swaps at dealerships, in/out five minutes and maybe sell you something while your there.
 

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I've lived the electric dream in the last 3 years with a BMW I3. Amazing car, structurally more advanced than anything in the road (incl Tesla) and super fun to drive. Sadistically I did this without the ability to home charge (flat in London), as my only car and relied solely on public charging network. So definitely count me as an early adopter...

Now ipace is a different beast with 3x the range and if I had ability to charge I would jump on that for sure. But looking at the current offerings and need to upgrade to SUV for a burgeoning family there was nothing viable. Closest I got was the X5 40e which is nice but too compromised and with my setup I'd fall back on a heavy and inefficient petrol setup too much as none of the current hybrids have fast DC charging (BMW even worse than others here)

So I landed on the Velar as next best thing - some forward looking tech, practical and some zippy cyl petrol options. But I will definitely miss the i3 despite all the hair pulling and frustration over the existing public charge network. Really the UK is behind the curve on this and the grid and planning won't be able to take mass adoption as the govt envisages. But on the upside I've spent less than £200 on charging and parking in the past 15000 miles :)

So to answer you're quey with your setup ipace is a no brainer and I'll be switching back to electric after my lease is up and I've moved house.
 
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Several months after this thread began and I'm still facing this same quandary - Velar or i-Pace. Have to make a decision this week for delivery next year. A friend around last night spent decades in local council building infrastructure for electric cars, and oversaw the council buy 16 Nissan Leafs. Strangely, after all of that, he's gone for a Range Rover Discovery, citing towing, range etc. and incomplete planning after ten years of prevarication.

Here's the point he raised. Surely driving electric vehicles takes a lot more intensive forward planning? My office in France is an eight hour drive - 500 miles - which at French motorway speeds is going to mean two charging stops -c/f sometimes one in my current Euro 6 diesel, and that's all without he inevitable motorway delays sucking juice from air-con, radio and creeping along for hours, as often happens.
Plus I see in an Australian article the Tesla X tows competently, albeit with a reduced range of 30% - probably more like 50% real time - but there is no word on the I-Pace towing - its is probably being groomed as a purely sport oriented SUV ala F-Pace. (A huge opportunity missed if true). So is the ride going to be similarly compromised? Will it have air suspension like the Tesla X?
Range anxiety is going to be an issue anyway - and already many recharge point s are full at peak times - casue for concern? Plus the tax take has to begin soon, surely before two more years of diesel motoring is up.

I'm not as sure as Arianne Euro 6 engines are going to be desirable at all after a few years especially as the Government appears so anti, and will probably legislate negatively.

Then there's price. The pre-launch hype said we're getting a 90kw I-Pace with a sunroof and Velar-type interior, with 0-60 of 4 seconds, all starting at £50,000. Then it changed to priced for Tesla X competition - which is £100,000 in the closely equivalent 100D spec. The Tesla X has a lot of spec for that money but its quite out of my price range.

I just hope Jaguar see the car as a desirable and popular route to the e-market - unlike IMO the Tesla, which i have never desired in any form.
 

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I put down a £1000 deposit on an I-Pace in April, but after losing confidence in the dealer and carrying out more research into EV's I requested a refund and decided to wait a couple of years until the market matures for the following reasons.

Main dealer technicians will need to build up experience in maintaining and repairing EV's. Especially Jaguar.

Mixed signals about servicing costs. They should be lower than ICE's, but Tesla prices are horrific.

Questions about battery life.

Questions about depreciation - I know one well known bank has limited loans for EV's to £35k because depreciation is still an unknown quantity. It stopped the purchase of a used £87k BMW i8.

Poor charging infrastructure - UK does not have a good track record when it comes to improving infrastructure.

Past bad experiences with new Jaguar models.

On the positive side, the I-Pace is the right size for my needs, looks superb and should be well built by Magna Steyr
 
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Good reasoning Martin. Thanks for the input. I was just going to place my £1,000 deposit.
Its a difficult decision - early adoption is always fraught. I'm not a great lover of Jaguar's per se - expensive and not quite there compared to the Germans, but something about this i-Pace does appeal. It does look good, and there's going to be so much space.
Surely they will be sharing charging infrastructure with Tesla? The 90 minute recharge time means hanging around crappy service areas on motorways for far longer than we'd like; that's a big negative.
Depreciation could be bad. Tesla's seem to have dropped far further than one would have thought. There's a chance carbon-fuelled engine technology may make big strides to compete, leaving depreciation a factor if the network isn't up to scratch. Plus for me there's still the big towing issue.

All in all, electric is probably good as a second vehicle, but I can't see both a Velar and an I-Pace in the drive!
 

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I had a BMW X5 40e and just changed for a D240 Velar....second car is an i3

I think the electric on the bigger car doesn't work as nicely as on the i3 - the i3 is a gem, amazing car, I am on my second one back to back since 2014, can't fault it

The range on the bigger car doesn't work that well....yet
 
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@mavg1986.
What range do you get from the i3, and how realistic is long distance travel (350 miles say)? My guess it would be ideal as a second-hand local travel choice....
 

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I do loads of 2-3 miles trips a day (about 4,5) and use it as a second car. I get about 80 miles out of a charge whichh works well for me and my usage.

The new bateries go a bit furthet to probably 110-120. I would only have as a main car on long distances if I could charge both at home and at destination.

Not sure a great option for holidays unless you can spare the time for a quick charge in between
 
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